Have you noticed that when people write about the raw milk issue, pro or con, the caveats fly? Raw milk advocates say, “We don’t want to minimize the food safety issues, but…” while opponents go, “Of course, people have the right to choose what foods they want to eat, but…”
The raw milk issue is fascinating to me because it yanks Americans’ politics and sympathies in opposing directions, mine included. Which only fascinates me all the more.
For me, I believe farmers and consumers should be able to trade goods, citizen to citizen, whether it’s raw milk, moonshine, or marijuana. That’s the libertarian in me.
But the maintenance of food safety and public health is essential. There’s no doubt that raw milk is a risk (so is getting on a motorcycle, of course). One fleck of manure on a cow’s teat can cause an E. coli infection in the drinker of that cow’s milk. I don’t know if you’ve seen how cows rest, but it often involves plopping that udder down on top of a cow pie. I sometimes wonder how it’s possible for a farmer to thoroughly clean that teat, so, personally, I agree strongly that government should regulate raw milk.
But most states allow “occasional” or “incidental” raw milk sales, and they do so in a totally hands-off, “you’re on your own” sort of approach. To me, that’s the problem. Protecting public health is what government does, so I’d rather see a raw milk dairy license issued by state departments of health and/or agriculture, enforcing best practices of sellers with a one-strike-and-you’re-out provision (the big gov lefty in me talking).
Then there’s corporate dairy, which sees raw milk as a threat to its market, reputation, and business concerns so it very actively supports banning raw milk. That corporate monolithic control of dairy brings out the Jeffersonian democrat in me, makes me want to strengthen small, grassroots raw milk markets across the country — if for no other reason, so people have a distinct choice from Big Dairy.
Choice. Freedom of trade. The role of government. Common good. The raw milk issue runs to the heart of the American discourse, so it’s no wonder even partisans temper their arguments when speaking of it.
Despite America’s inner conflict about raw milk, a consensus seems to be forming in the “Halls of Power,” so to speak. Whether government action against small farmers is actually Big Dairy playing its “trump card” or simply food safety being pursued for the common good, the political winds are blowing against raw milk right now. A nationwide crackdown is under way, with government action against raw milk farmers and buying clubs taking place in Wisconsin, as mentioned, Pennsylvania, Massachusets, and Minnesota.
We have a Tea Party. And now a Coffee Party. Hrm. A Raw Milk Party might fit right in…
I think all the raw milk drinkers and sellers have just shot themselves in the foot. Instead of a network of “underground” consumers and dairies where both parties were winners (consumers got a product they thought was more valuable and farmers could charge obsence amounts), we now have two loosing parties. States which traditionally had loose laws are now going to crack down. Will not be surprised if MN Legislation writes stricker rules next session.
I am a raw milk drinker (because it is available and “free”). We have an organic dairy farm. We don’t sell raw milk, but don’t really care if others want to. To the grass-fed vs grain fed milk and e.coli debate. The e.coli found in milk has more to do with how clean the animal is when milked and how well the equipment cleaning system is working.
Final statement, to everyone who thinks their side is “right” because they are more educated. Haha. Arguments like this have nothing to do with how much research is on each side, it more to do with how risk adverse you are. Some think raw milk is too risky, some think it is too risky to not to drink raw milk.
Emily (ready for the flammers)
I’m not sure how you mean raw milk drinkers shot themselves in the foot. It is primarily an underground thing, except where the state is trying to shut things down. What is wrong with the farmer making some money from his milk? Most charge less than what organic milk costs in the grocery store. So, it’s obscene if the farmer gets the money, but if a bunch of parasites get in on the sale then it’s ok?
E-coli is more related to grain feeding. Grain feeding causes acidic conditions in the rumen which allows e-coli to thrive, particularily the nasty mutant one that causes all the problems. Certainly cleanliness is important always, but it is far better to feed grass and eliminate most risk. Here is some interesting reading in that regard. http://www.eatwild.com/foodsafety.html
I have to disagree that grass-based dairying is primarily a result of the Great Recession. Here in MN, several dairys and a beef company have excelled in grass-fed meats, milk, cheeses and national-award-winning butters. These producers are certainly breeding different cattle and cows than the conventional producers, and in many cases are finding healthier animals resulting from mixing breeds.
Barth,
In my opinion the opposition is not based on the potential of lost sales to raw milk buyers, but that of the potential risk of just one case of a person getting ill on raw milk will put a black eye on the whole industry. We see this all too often when one bad apple appears, the media makes out the whole industry as being the culprit. I detest government regulations with a passion. I think that it should be the right of anyone to eat what they want. Heck, i’ve been known to say ”whatever happened to survival of the fittest?” The business man in me takes over and says that I need to protect my customer and keep him coming back. To me that means protecting the industry as a whole.
Thanks
Kevin H @kjh_786
I feel the conflict within you….give in to the raw milk side, Luke…
I don’t think the dairy industry needs protection from raw milk’s reputation, and they know they don’t need it. With all the outbreaks tied to raw milk dating back two decades, you see nothing in the way of smear campaigns against dairy as a whole. Raw and pasteurized are two distinct products and markets. Big Dairy is far more worried that popular interest in raw milk will lead to the creation of a competing, premium-priced, grassroots product that it can’t industrialize.
“just one case of a person getting ill on raw milk will put a black eye on the whole industry”
Specious argument at best. There have already been numerous safety issues and illness in the news linked to raw milk … those problems only effect the raw milk industry.
The real threats to the milk industry include antibiotic and hormone use, animal welfare issues, and those in the health professions who advise avoidance of dairy due to allergies or digestive problems. Pretty much the same reasons many people prefer raw milk. These are the issues to clean up to protect the industry as a whole. I drive by local dairies and see cows standing/laying in excrement, not a shade tree or blade of grass in sight. The dead cows are pulled outside the pen waiting for pick up. Flies everywhere. I don’t want to drink that milk nor serve it to my family and pets regardless of how long it is cooked.
I prefer my milk raw and am willing to take the risk of using that which comes from my animals. I know what they’ve eaten, how they’re housed, what meds are on board, and how the milk is handled. I heat treat the milk my grand kids drink because I’m not willing to risk their health if I’ve mishandled the goods. I would like to see raw milk regulated: eg grade A dairies, frequent pathogen testing etc. I also think there should be a disclaimer label when sold that notifies of potential risks. That labeling should also be on meat and green leafy vegetables – items most commonly responsible for foodborne illness. Or perhaps we should make that stuff illegal as well?
As a huge proponent of raw milk and a member of CARE, I truly believe in my personal right to contract with a farmer, fully knowing my ability to choose for myself, in order to purchase food products as I see fit.
I would be interested to know the RATIO of illness in raw milk users to overall population and that of illness to conventional milk users. Of course, you can only look at food borne illness in a tangible way. No one is speaking about the long term health effects of drinking grainfed, commercially processed, homogenized milk from super mutant breeds of cattle.
As a child, our friend was a traditional dairy farmer and we drank milk right from the cow. I wanted the same for my children.
Great debate!
I am curious as to how much grain you think a dairy cow would eat?
Kevin H
I missed that one earlier. I am not aware of any mutant breeds of dairy cows. Do you have an example?
Kevin H
You said “I don’t know if you’ve seen how cows rest, but it often involves plopping that udder down on top of a cow pie . . .”
have you ever been to a REAL farm where cows are not wading in cowpies? If there is not enough grass then there is a lot more manure in a lot smaller space. Cows are actually very clean animlas under the right conditions. It is not uncommon for a big ag ‘organic’ dairy to have 100 cows on 5 acres. Not the case where Grass fed raw milk producers are concerned.
Also, are you aware that there are two major strains of ecoli? You could sit down and eat a cowpie with a fork and not get e-coli if it came from a cow that has been fed properly. (I wouldn’t recommend it, but I’m just sayin’ you could if you really wanted to) Cows fed grains, candy, and baked goods have a higher concentration of stomach acid, which produces an acid resistant strain of e-coli. This is the e-coli that will kill you if you eat it. The ecoli found in grass fed cow manure is not able to survive the trip through your stomach, so it won’t make you sick.
Milk from big dairy farms where they feed their cows everything from shredded newspaper soaked in molasses, chicken poop in wood shavings, animal byproducts from slaughter houses, old gummy bears, and sludge waste from breweries, to pesticide to keep the flies at bay – (yes, it’s true) even kills the calves that drink it if it isn’t pasturized first.
Visit http://www.facebook.com/findrawmilk for more information on the kind of raw milk you can actually drink without dying.
I’ve been to three “REAL” farms with very small herds so far this year. All three exhibited what I would call excellent, sustainable farming practices, and all three sold raw milk to select customers off the farm occasionally. I drank raw milk at two of the farms, and I would call all three farmers friends of mine.
In one, it was still late srping, not the full grassy-green rite of spring yet, so the cows had not been let out to pasture. They were in a pen, eating hay, and waiting for a fresh paddock. In that pen, they couldn’t help but get their udders a little muddy or “crappy.” That’s just a reality of Minnesota grass-fed dairying in our so-called “spring.”
In another farm, the cows were in a fresh paddock of tall blue-green grass that looked so good *I* wanted to eat it (mid-May — rotational grazing was under way). But even there, cows had to crap, and crap they did, and a couple happened to plop down in cow pies. It happens, even on farms with very conscientious rotational grazing methods — though obviously far less often than a cow might in a pen or a feedlot.
As for E. coli 0157:H7 (pathogenic, industrially available E. coli), you’re overstating what grass-fed diets can do. The ’98 study “Grain Feeding and the Dissemination of Acid-Resistant Escherichia coli from Cattle” (login req) which I believe you’re referring to, found that grass-fed diets could greatly reduce pathogenic E. coli, but not eliminate it altogether (FYI, grain-fed cattle in that study had 80 times the E. coli count of grass-fed cows).
Don’t feel bad. Michael Pollan has also made this mistake, I believe.
I linked this debate in my blog here: http://amoderatelife.com/2010/06/friday-thoughts-from-the-middle-of-the-road-2/ to draw in more discussion as this is an important topic. I thank you for putting it up! I might even register!
I appreciate it
A cow’s ration consists of primarily forages comprised of grass, alfalfa, clover, whole plant corn silage. That ration typically has some grains mixed in for added energy and protein. These grains, which are either ground or rolled for digestion aids, may consist of corn, soybeans, oats, wheat, barley, rye, and cottonseed. A cow’s stomach (stomach’s, they have 4 compartments) cannot handle too much grain, it will build up acid and can kill the animal. It is true that some will add other feed sources that are co-products of the beer and alcohol industry such as wet and dry brewers grains and distillers grains. These are added in small amounts again to help balance the ration to add protein and energy. Our dairy (120 head of milk cows0 may be considered by some as a large dairy, which is housed in a sand bedded free stall and milking parlor system. Prior to that they were housed and milked in a tie stall building, and let out on pasture at nights when it was cool enough. Since converting to the free stall system, which allows them to roam freely throughout the day within the barn, the herd health has improved, conception rates gone up, and milk production increased with no major changes in their diet. They prefer to lay on the sand bedding and as long as the poop piles are pulled out 2x daily, they do not “flop their udders” in the poop.
I guess what I am gettin at is that when I hear about grain fed milk cows I am confused, It is not practical to feed a milk cow nothing but grain, it will kill her. Of all the organic and amish farms that I know, they also suppliment their cows with grains. As far as feeding “everything from shredded newspaper soaked in molasses, chicken poop in wood shavings, animal byproducts from slaughter houses, old gummy bears, and sludge waste from breweries, to pesticide to keep the flies at bay” 1st off, the nutritional qualities of many of those are very poor and “if they would be used, it would be in a very very small amount. To address the pesticide feeding, all I can say is that milk is the most tested food product in the world. Tolerances for drugs and pesticides are at as close to a zero tolerance as you can get. Milk is tested from every bulk tank at every pick up everyday. If your bulk tank tests positive for a substance, that farmer just bought the whole tanker. That can ruin a farm.
Thanks
Kevin H
I don’t think I’ve ever heard of milk being tested for insecticides. Not the ones applied directly to the cattle for flies, or the ones doused on the food crops the cattle eat. They don’t test for synthetic hormone residues in the milk either. And they don’t test for herbicide residues that are doused on food crops for the cows either.
Sounds like their should be some testing done on milk so consumers know just how many vile poisons are in their food. Or switch to organic dairy products so you don’t have to poison your family, and our water, soil, and air, by supporting poor farming practices.
What ‘sludge’ is produced from breweries? As a former brewer we did have a dairy farmer pick up our ‘spent’ grain. This is the grain post-mash. Most of the sugar is gone (we want the sugar for the beer). It is very high quality grain. To call this sludge is either ignorance or slant. btw-if we made a very strong/concentrated beer we would exclude that grain b/c the sugar content, even in the spent grain, is too high for the animals. To me-it seemed like great recycling of materials–would you rather see this grain in a landfill??
It should go back on the ground as fertilizer. Why is the only option feeding it to a herbivore or a landfill? It would be a great fertilizer.
Why don’t they test for synthetic hormones? They cannot distinguish the difference. A cow administered say BGH, a hormone found naturally in the cow will not have any higher level of that hormone in it’s milk than a cow not given the hormone. As far as the quality and safety difference between organic vs non organic produced milk? The only proof would be in the massive amounts of record keeping required by organic producers. If I gave you 2 glasses of milk (both either whole, 2% or skim milk) there is no way to determine which one was actually produced under organic certifications other than the paperwork. No test is available to distinguish between the two.
Just to repeat an earlier post, milk is most tested food in this country! It also is one of the few if not the only food that is produced in a completely closed system, meaning no human hands touch the milk.
Thanks
Kevin H
They feed cows pesticide boluses. They also have pesticed laced salt blocks and pesticede powders that can be mixed with the feed. They don’t call them pesticides, they call them something else. I have researched each of the items I mentioned previously and have even found instructions on feeding these and other equally disgusting things on various Agriculture and University extension websites, along with the “nutritional” values of each item. The pesticide boluses require the use of a feeding plunger/gun thingy-ma-bob, because cows will not eat them on their own. But don’t worry, if you buy two cases, one place is offering the feeding gun for free.
Kevin, I am glad to hear that YOU don’t feed your cows these things, but MANY dairies DO. But you do feed your cattle grains including corn and soy, which still raises the acid content of the cows stomach higher than it SHOULD. This is what produces the acid resistant e-coli that makes people sick, and has even inspired the beef industry to inject their meat with ammonia to kill the e-coli. Which would you rather have? A steak marinated in ammonia, or a steak you have to cook to death so you don’t accidentaly kill yourself because it is tainted with the e-coli superbug? It is all verifable – you can look it up. Have fun!
Yes, grains are included in the rations, even organic produceres include grains. As I stated before, grains are not the major feed source in the diet. A dairy cow would not survive on a grain only diet! They are added as suppliments to improve protein content and energy levels in the diet. Yes you could not feed any grains, but the milk production would drop and the ability to become profitable is diminished.
I will also restate that milk is the most tested food period. It is tested for bacteria, E.Coli, drugs, etc. More than fresh fruits and vegetables. If a producer fed his cattle unapproved products, it will be detected and dealt with. What I find kind of ironic is an organic co-op in our area has problems with “hot milk”, milk that tests possitive for antibiotics. That is a definate no-no for organics.
I choose not to live in Monsanto la-la land. I’ll stick with what God gave us vs what the “merchants of the earth” want us to believe. I was also referring to the breeding hormones….you know, the ones that can make pregnant women abort. Conventional agriculture uses them all the time. Can you imagine if consumers found out what the side effects are of the vile POISONS conventional ag is using. Good thing there isn’t a fertility crisis in the US, eh?
No difference. LOL!!! Ever heard of CLA, and omega 3′s, Oh, and beta carotene, and no synthetic hormone residues in the milk or manure. No pesticides polluting our ground water, air, and soil. Wormers that kill off dung beetles and other beneficial insects. I suppose folks drinking poison milk won’t have any parasites, maybe that is how we should look at it.
I think I’ll stick with organic production. I’d like to have my neighbors/consumers around for a while instead of giving them all cancer and sterility.
No I don’t know what hormones you are claiming that make pregnent women abort, if they drink milk. Could you please enlighten me.
The hormones I am familiar with in reproduction do not carry any wornings, that I am aware of to withhold milk due to risk of aborting fetuses. The hormones we use, under veterinary supervision, are to promote reproduction, not abortion.
Are you implying that CLA, omega 3′s and beta cerotene are harmful?
Are you confusing pesticides with antibiotics? Not sure if I have heard feeding pesticides. We have been dairy for over 100 yrs.
Emily again
Here is one quick quote I found for those wondering.
”Lutalyse is only dangerous to women of childbearing age/pregnant women — no ifs, ands, or buts about it, it will cause abortion. It absorbs through the skin, and during the testing period, all the pregnant women that worked with it aborted, some from no more than breathing the fumes.”
It’s ONLY dangerous to pregnant women. Yeah, sure. Even breathing the fumes caused abortion, but hey squirt it into the cow and drink the milk. NO chance of any residue or side effects. How many babies were sacraficed for the greed and evil of man? Some of the other hormones may do other nasty things, don’t get too hung up on the “close supervision of a vet”, they are not God. Some would like to be, and sure act like it! How many other “safe” drugs have been banned over the years? I’m not into using people as guinea pigs.
Omega 3 and CLA are the future!!!! They are heart healthy and anti cancer and they are in organic, and especially grass fed. 100% grass is supreme milk and meat. No poison needed.
Can you actually point to any cases proven that the administration of lutalyse to a lactating cow actually caused a fetus to abort in a human? I would certainly like to see some concrete evidence if you would mind sharing. If this is true, the FDA has missed something then.
Might be perfectly fine to feed it to an herbivore, too, but Will Allen’s Growing Power composts waste from a local organic brewery in Milwaukee.
Has this gone from a raw milk discussion to an org. vs. conv. conversation?
As an organic farmer with a significant history in organic dairy, I would agree w/the idea that most organic dairies use grain (a small amount, maybe 5-9 pounds per day, per head) as a platform to provide the animal with a variety of the nutrients and minerals she needs to be healthy. In addition, there is typically a molasses base, some soy and corn. She likes it. It tastes good, and it gives her the nutrition she needs to thrive, breed, and live a good life.
Honestly, no, she doesnt need the grain (and the accompanying nutrition) to SURVIVE, however the platform typically keeps her happy, certainly healthier, and in good condition to produce and survive well. She will make a little more milk, and it will be better milk.
We don’t process corn either, but we eat it once in awhile because it tastes good.
“100% grass fed” for dairy is actually scary to me, because many animals do not thrive, especially in the NE winters, on grass alone. It takes a different type of cow to do well on this diet (for beef consumption, let’s say, instead of milk production).
The other rude, albeit truthful reality that escapes most consumers is that 100% grass fed is an unfortunate reality of the economic downturn. Grain is expensive, and nearly all grass based dairy guys we know just couldnt afford the grain anymore, so tried to turn it into a consumer upside. Almost all would feed grain if they could afford to.
So, as a consumer, if you think buying that 100% grass fed dairy is a plus, you may want to rethink the hypothesis.
As for the raw milk, don’t get me started. This is NOT a violation of your libertarian God given rights. If you want raw milk, buy a cow. Please stop suggesting that in taking raw milk off the farm and handling it improperly you somehow absolve the farmer. You don’t. You’re dead, or really sick, and your Brother-In-Law Ambulance Chaser Lawyer Who Graduated Dead Last From Night School Law School On Line somehow thinks going after a multi-generational farm family because of your stupidity is somehow a really good idea.
Out.
Dean Sparks
Greene, New York
http://www.getnymilk.com
A big part of the raw milk argument revolves around feeding grain. If we want the absolute highest quality, safest milk possible. It should be all grass/forage. This should also include quality soil nutrition to build healthy soil and nutrient dense forage.Grain kills omega 3, CLA, and promotes acid content. Acid and e-coli go hand in hand. A few pounds of grain is certainly better than a lot, but it still screwes up omega content. Omega 3 and CLA are anti cancer and heart healthy, so it is the future!
The health benefits of grass fed are immense and it will become much more visible as time goes on. There are plenty of grass/forage only farmers doing a great job, so to make blanket statements about grass fed, based on some farms that did it because the grain bill broke them, and they did it by accident is a poor comparison. It does take good management, but I’ve also seen much resistance by grain fed guys that don’t want admit the superiority of grass milk. It is and that’s not going to change. If you want the best, start figuring it out now.
Organic also is part of the equation, as most raw milk consumers are educated. They would rather not have a dose of poison with every sip of milk they have, and/or support the destruction of the environment in the process. There are farms doing a great job without being certified organic, so it doesn’t mean certified is the only answer.
Some cows just like to be dirty. We have a pasture based dairy and there are just a few cows that no matter how much grass they have, crap, look at it, then lay down on it. Or take this week for example. Rain, rain, rain no matter what the grass looks like, our cows have to walk in from the pasture and get mud all over them. No shiny cows frolickly in the green pastures this week. Just wet cows standing in the cold, pouring rain. Thanks reality. Okay, going to finish reading the rest of the comments now
Emily Z